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Dear Mama,

What if I told you there’s no such thing as snapping back after giving birth, only expanding into?  What if I told you that the you you’re trying to get to is not in your past but ahead of you?  What if I asked you to imagine Black motherhood without suffering?  Could you do it?  Have we made suffering a rite of passage in Black motherhood? Have we shrouded Black motherhood in self-sacrifice as opposed to sacred sacrifice?  These are the questions we explore in this episode about matrescence.  Coined by Anthropologist and reproductive psychologist Dana Raphael in the 1970s, matrescence is the process of becoming a mother, including the physical, psychological, and emotional changes that occur during pregnancy, birth, and the postnatal period. Lissen yall, this episode drove us (well, Thea) to drink!  So we’re glad to have one of our favs Stepha Lafond of Unlearning Motherhood, ridin’ shotgun with us who provides context to all the things we know and feel about transitioning to and in motherhood but didn’t have the language for:

• Much like adolescence, matrescence involves ongoing shifts that shape our identity and understanding of ourselves. 
• How self-forgiveness sets the tone for your motherhood journey
• Why setting the strong Black women free is important for us and our children
• Normalizing not doing motherhood alone

SYLLABUS

Church Announcements:

• Responsive Reading: Black Mama Magic Card #39 My children are my teachers.
• Merchant of the Month: Black Mama Magic Card Deck
• Patreon Bonus Content:  Grounding lead by Thea: “If I surrender to the air I can ride it” – Toni Morrison✨

Mac & Cheese

Stepha is a Life Coach, Mentor, and Speaker, dedicated to helping moms navigate the space between who they were and who they’re still becoming. As a mom of two young children, she knows firsthand the struggles of juggling the demands of motherhood, career, and life. She started her practice out of a desire to put moms at the center of the conversation, with an emphasis on shifting the narrative on modern motherhood to one that allows space for mamas to grow, heal and take care of themselves at all stages of their journey. Her work on Matrescence- the transition into motherhood- invites her clients and spectators to explore and hold space for this common but rarely discussed phase of development, whilst taking a critical look at the unjust systems and power structures impacting motherhood and creating necessary shifts towards liberation.

Connect with Stepha LaFond & Unlearning Motherhood: Instagram 

EPISODES MENTIONS/RELEVANT TO THIS EPISODE:

• DBM Episode 51: When It All Falls Down, Finding Freedom & Transitioning to Conscious Parenting w/ Domari Dickinson
• DBM Episode 33: Haitian American Mama w/ Stepha LaFond
• Meditations By Mamas: Full Moon/Shedding Meditation featuring Stepha LaFond

Engage: This is a conversation so we love it when yall talk back!  Our inbox and DMs are always open. Share your thoughts about the episode using the hashtag #DemBlackMamas, DM us or email us at [email protected].

FULL TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Stepha LaFond: What do you view your role as a mother to be? Is it to get it perfect and tell your kid everything and fix it? Or is it to be a guy that’s walking alongside them through most of these processes? Right? So yeah, there are times where you do need to tell them and show them, but there are times you mostly have to just kind of let them figure things out because if not, your identity gets tied into that version by the ring of like, I’m the, I’m the fixer.

[00:00:27] Stepha LaFond: I’m the one that they need to do this, to do that. And when they’re an adult and you can no longer do that, you are shattered or you become either resentful or just that parent that now your kids don’t want to talk to you because they’re like, they’re not letting me be a grownup.

[00:00:43] Crystal Tennille Irby: I will drink to

[00:00:44] NeKisha Killings: that.

[00:00:49] NeKisha Killings: I’m going to need to go see what I can put in my mug over here. Cause you’re not going to be the only one.[00:01:00]

[00:01:26] Crystal Tennille Irby: Dear Mama, what if I told you there’s no such thing as snapping back after giving birth, only expanding into? What if I told you the you you’re trying to get back to is not in your past, but ahead of you? What if I asked you to imagine black motherhood without suffering? Could you do it? Have we made suffering a rite of passage in Black motherhood?

[00:01:50] Crystal Tennille Irby: Have we shrouded Black motherhood in self sacrifice? as opposed to sacred sacrifice. These are the questions we explore in [00:02:00] this episode about matrescence. Coined by anthropologist and reproductive psychologist Dana Raphael in the 1970s, matrescence is the process of becoming a mother, including the physical, psychological, and emotional changes that occur during pregnancy, birth, and the postnatal period.

[00:02:17] Crystal Tennille Irby: Listen, this episode drove us, well, not all of us, Thea, to drink. So we’re glad to have one of our faves, Stephala Fawn of Unlearning Motherhood riding shotgun with us to provide context to all the things we know and feel about transitioning to and in motherhood, but didn’t have the language for. So before we jump into this episode, thanks for coming inside the Black Momma Magic room.

[00:02:46] Crystal Tennille Irby: If you’re a new listener, welcome to the mothership. If you’re a newbie or an OG, share this episode with at least one person and be sure to check out our merch of the month, the Black Momma Magic card deck curated by us, the Black [00:03:00] Mommas. You can find that link, info about our guest, Stepha LaFawn of Unlearning Motherhood, and a full transcript of this episode in our show notes.

[00:03:09] Crystal Tennille Irby: On our website at demblackmamas. com that’s d e m blackmamas. com. Now let’s get free y’all and jump into episode 49 of Dem Black Mamas. Everybody welcome back to the ride. It’s the greatest podcast podcast. On Earth and you’re on the mothership inside the Black Mamba Magic Room. I am Crystal Tennille Irby, mother of four.

[00:03:44] Crystal Tennille Irby: I am Thea Monyea, mother of three. She was buying some products. That’s why she.

[00:03:48] NeKisha Killings: I am Nakisha Killings, mother of four. Who is actually buying product.

[00:03:52] Thea Monyee: I am trying to find something for Nikisha. That’s all. They are literally

[00:03:57] Crystal Tennille Irby: buying product. I’m trying to read. [00:04:00] I’m

[00:04:00] NeKisha Killings: here. I’m

[00:04:01] Crystal Tennille Irby: in,

[00:04:01] NeKisha Killings: I’m in the space. Okay. This is

[00:04:05] Crystal Tennille Irby: it.

[00:04:05] Crystal Tennille Irby: This

[00:04:05] NeKisha Killings: is

[00:04:05] Crystal Tennille Irby: it. Boom.

[00:04:06] NeKisha Killings: I’m sorry. That i’m so let me know this better be the best blush ever. We

[00:04:10] Crystal Tennille Irby: ready because i don’t spend a

[00:04:11] NeKisha Killings: grit today

[00:04:12] Crystal Tennille Irby: It’s gonna look good on you. I hope so and on the next recording. I want to see it. I

[00:04:16] NeKisha Killings: hope it is since you Since you purchased it. Are we still buying uh, fenty pro filter?

[00:04:21] NeKisha Killings: Have y’all moved on? We’re not doing fenty I mean because i’m still there for

[00:04:24] Thea Monyee: I don’t use the pro filter, but I use I use the tinted moisturizer and that is Everything for me.

[00:04:28] NeKisha Killings: I still don’t have the type of coverage that you all, that most people have. When I’m looking back at me, I’m like, why are my blemishes still showing through, but I’m probably not doing even with the pro filter.

[00:04:37] Thea Monyee: Do you have the concealer? I don’t use it often.

[00:04:39] NeKisha Killings: Is that what I need? I need to pair them up.

[00:04:41] Thea Monyee: Well, the blemishes you want to put the concealer first and then put the pro filter.

[00:04:44] Crystal Tennille Irby: Well, Rihanna, you are more than welcome. So come on here and talk about these products, girl. We welcome you. Come on. Let me tell you something.

[00:04:53] Crystal Tennille Irby: Come on here girl.

[00:04:54] Thea Monyee: I believe if Rihanna knew we existed, she would 100 percent say yes. You think Rihanna doesn’t know we exist? I don’t believe that. [00:05:00] No, but no, cause that don’t make sense. If she knew we existed, she’d be on the podcast.

[00:05:02] Crystal Tennille Irby: I think she knows. She just hasn’t had time. She’s coming on. Beyonce’s coming on.

[00:05:06] Crystal Tennille Irby: Rihanna’s coming on.

[00:05:08] NeKisha Killings: Yeah. I feel like you’re, I feel like you are trolling me a little bit because this says for medium deep to deep skin tones. Why would you send me a shade For medium deep skin tones,

[00:05:18] Thea Monyee: but it depends on how you use it. That’s the good thing about fancy. You can, you, you can use it as a blush.

[00:05:23] Thea Monyee: That’s not what it’s actually for, but I use it as a blush.

[00:05:26] Crystal Tennille Irby: I just like to remind people that Dia also has like California skin. So you get that good undertone because it’s like sunny all the time. I don’t have that situation. I don’t know much

[00:05:35] Thea Monyee: about, no,

[00:05:36] Crystal Tennille Irby: really. And like in the South because of white supremacy, you know, like shit, the sun changes here.

[00:05:41] Crystal Tennille Irby: Oh, so it’s different. Yeah. It’s not the same. White

[00:05:43] Thea Monyee: supremacy

[00:05:44] Crystal Tennille Irby: does change the sun, bitch. It does change

[00:05:46] NeKisha Killings: the

[00:05:46] Crystal Tennille Irby: sun.

[00:05:46] NeKisha Killings: It does.

[00:05:47] Thea Monyee: Okay, maybe go in and try it on first.

[00:05:49] NeKisha Killings: I’m looking like Homie the Clown. Homie the Clown! As I’m trying it on right now. It look a hot mess.

[00:05:54] Thea Monyee: It ain’t like you gon pile it on easy. You like, pop, pop, pop.

[00:05:56] Thea Monyee: That’s it. Like, poop, poop, poop. You don’t be like, bah, bah, bah. You just be like, pop, pop, pop. [00:06:00] And then you like, blend.

[00:06:02] NeKisha Killings: I’ma try it. Try it. Just see it don’t stare me wrong. I’m going to try it.

[00:06:07] Thea Monyee: Don’t

[00:06:07] Crystal Tennille Irby: be heavy hands in. Let me tell y’all

[00:06:10] NeKisha Killings: something.

[00:06:11] Crystal Tennille Irby: If you’re not watching on YouTube, you’re missing it. You are missing it because a lot of it is visuals.

[00:06:17] NeKisha Killings: I’m going to be offending whole ethnic groups. Look like I got on tribal war paint and I’m going to say, yeah.

[00:06:24] Crystal Tennille Irby: Be mad at the white oppressors. Colonized blood. It is a colonized blood and I don’t appreciate it.

[00:06:30] Thea Monyee: You got a big long, look, you have like. She does, but the sun

[00:06:35] Crystal Tennille Irby: is different in red states. I keep telling you that.

[00:06:39] Crystal Tennille Irby: That’s so true.

[00:06:44] NeKisha Killings: Please put reflection on the career list.

[00:06:47] Stepha LaFond: Put your reflection on the So, you

[00:06:49] Crystal Tennille Irby: can tell this is the Black Mamba Magic. I mean, this is a I Girl, what is the name of the damn podcast? You can tell that this is a Tim Black Mamba’s podcast because we started off [00:07:00] down a rabbit hole, but we’re back. We’re back.

[00:07:02] Crystal Tennille Irby: We’re back. This means we’ve come up from the rabbit hole. This is like my fifth beverage this whole podcast. I’m hydrating ass food. And she’s also a little drunk, because she had some tequila, because we’ve already recorded the mac and cheese, and she needed to drink some tequila. So, we are going to jump in with our responsive reading.

[00:07:29] Crystal Tennille Irby: Then we will have our mac and cheese, which is, uh Oh, my God. Very cheesy. Oh, my God. It made my tummy hurt a little bit. It’s so cheesy. It’s so, and by cheesy, we mean good. It’s so cheesy. It made my tummy hurt a little bit. It’s so good. I’m a little

[00:07:41] NeKisha Killings: uncomfortable up in here. Multiple times.

[00:07:43] Crystal Tennille Irby: It got a little tight.

[00:07:44] Crystal Tennille Irby: Okay. Are we ready? Are we ready for the responsive reading? Yes. Do we have a card number we want to pick or do y’all just want me to see what the answer is? Yeah. Let’s see what flips out. Let’s see what falls out. Okay.

[00:07:56] Thea Monyee: Here we go.

[00:07:57] Crystal Tennille Irby: Oh, when you said child, I thought she was going to [00:08:00] say ass, get it fixed. You know, I hear everything in Beyonce lyrics.

[00:08:04] Crystal Tennille Irby: I

[00:08:05] NeKisha Killings: mean, it’s happening. So I could have said that because I ain’t doing nothing to stop it at this point.

[00:08:17] NeKisha Killings: Here we go. Here we go.

[00:08:20] Thea Monyee: We are in alignment. It’s going to be good. I’m ready. My children are my teachers.

[00:08:24] Crystal Tennille Irby: Mm. That does lead really well into the episode. So this is card 39, 9 plus three is 12, and then one plus two is three. What does three stand

[00:08:36] Thea Monyee: for numbers? Person three is completion in some areas because the Trinity and different things in three.

[00:08:41] Thea Monyee: So three is about

[00:08:42] Crystal Tennille Irby: completion. Circling up dear mama. Whether your babies are three or 30, they are constantly teaching you at times. They are a mirror. Reflecting the shiny, cracked, or broken pieces of you. Other times, they are lenses through which you can see your own opportunities for [00:09:00] growth. Always, they are tools of the universe to help you reach your highest self.

[00:09:05] Crystal Tennille Irby: What if you face each day with the intention to learn from your children? How might you experience each other differently? Which one of us wrote that? Sometimes I can’t tell who wrote what. Crystal, maybe? I have no idea. But, I will say, just listen to the mac and cheese. Perfect. It’s perfect. Perfect.

[00:09:24] Crystal Tennille Irby: Perfect for the mac and cheese. It’s so good. That’s so good. All right. So if you are not following us, which you should be following us, I can’t even understand why you imagine it. We can’t imagine it. But you can follow us on all social media platforms at DemBlackMamasPodcast and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

[00:09:41] Crystal Tennille Irby: You get all of them. So you can’t see that. You can’t see what I’m doing. All YouTube channel. All the magic. All the magic. All the magic. You can be subscribed on an audio platform and on our YouTube channel as well.[00:10:00]

[00:10:02] Crystal Tennille Irby: So we are transitioning to our Mac and Cheese segment, and we are excited to have, I mean, you are a guest, but you like the homie, you know? anymore. People still say that people stay home. Yeah, you’re like the homie, but we’re so happy to have you here. And Stefa LaFawn of unlearning motherhood is here today to talk about in essence, liberation and motherhood.

[00:10:30] Crystal Tennille Irby: But before we jump in, we’re going to do our favorite thing, which is to read the bios of black women. Okay. Call this the roses of our show. Stefa is a life coach, mentor, and speaker. Dedicated to helping moms navigate the space between who they were and who they’re still becoming. I like that. Becoming. As a mom of two young children, she knows firsthand the struggles of juggling the demands of motherhood, career, and life.

[00:10:56] Crystal Tennille Irby: She started her practice out of a desire to put moms at the [00:11:00] center of the conversation. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, with an emphasis on shifting the narrative on modern motherhood to one that allows space for mamas to grow, heal, and take care of themselves at all stages of their journey. Her work on, okay, we worked on this before we started recording, but mattress, mattress, mattress, so I have to remember I’m from the South and I learned how to read by sight.

[00:11:26] Crystal Tennille Irby: So I’m not good at phonics, mattress sense, the transition into motherhood. invites her clients and spectators to explore and hold space for this common but rarely discussed phase of development. Wilkes taking a critical look at the unjust systems and power structures impacting motherhood and creating necessary shifts toward liberation.

[00:11:47] Crystal Tennille Irby: I love it. I love it. I love it. Great bio. I love reading those files. They’re so great. And I hope that when you hear it back, you’d be like, yeah, right. That’s

[00:11:59] NeKisha Killings: [00:12:00] Bashu,

[00:12:01] Crystal Tennille Irby: you did that. But the mantra of this podcast is motherhood is not the graveyard of dreams. And so in talking about motherhood in a liberatory way, I really want to give mothers tools to really, really, really live that out.

[00:12:18] Crystal Tennille Irby: So today I’m excited that you’re here to talk to us about the transition into motherhood and to also speak to us about unlearning. motherhood. The person who coined the phrase, her name is Dana Raphael. And this is interesting. One of the things that she often said in her writings was, in some cultures, we say a woman has given birth, but here we say a child is born.

[00:12:42] Crystal Tennille Irby: And that shifts the focus from the birth person to the child. And then we become obsessed with the child, the child’s response to the world and the experience that they’re having in the world. And we lose sight of. Uh, the [00:13:00] experience that we’re having in the world, which has a much greater impact on the child.

[00:13:05] Crystal Tennille Irby: If you think about it, we just had an episode with Demarai Dickinson who talked about conscious parenting is not about the child. It’s about you and your healing and how you’re responding to the child and Also, that’s one of the reasons this podcast is focused on the mother and not on the children, but the actual experience that we’re having.

[00:13:23] Crystal Tennille Irby: So having you here and your work is like completely in alignment with our intention and what we hope to give mom.

[00:13:32] Thea Monyee: So we’re

[00:13:32] Crystal Tennille Irby: gonna get started with our traditional question, which is where were you 10 years ago? And your motherhood journey, business journey, your platform journey. And did you think you would be where you are right now?

[00:13:49] Stepha LaFond: Okay. Hey y’all. Thanks for this great introduction. Love it. Love it. And 10 years ago, I was not yet a mother, but I was [00:14:00] definitely thinking about it. Newly ish wed, you know, enjoying that and having fun together. I think thinking about kids, but not there yet. Fully in corporate. I think at that point I was selling Stella and Dot jewelry.

[00:14:12] Stepha LaFond: I

[00:14:15] NeKisha Killings: still got some of that stuff around. It’s not the same color as it was when I bought it, but it’s here.

[00:14:20] Crystal Tennille Irby: Yeah. I just can’t imagine you doing that. It’s so hard for me to imagine you doing that. You do have a big personality, but it’s hard for me to imagine you as like a salesperson.

[00:14:37] Stepha LaFond: Oh, it’s funny. Cause my whole background is in sales.

[00:14:40] Stepha LaFond: I’m not a salesy salesperson. I’m a relationship.

[00:14:45] NeKisha Killings: Let me solve whatever

[00:14:48] Stepha LaFond: the problem is and work through it together. And that way I am very salesy. So I was doing that. And then I’m thinking blogging. I used to be a hair [00:15:00] blogger,

[00:15:00] Thea Monyee: y’all. I can see that. This is go through the whole journey. You know what I’m saying?

[00:15:05] Thea Monyee: Cause you know, if we were to list all the shit we did on the way

[00:15:09] to,

[00:15:11] Thea Monyee: this almost feels like an unfair question. Many of us have done life. So with a little UPF, you know, might

[00:15:23] NeKisha Killings: be a little bartending, you know what I’m saying? Might be a little P Valley situation. You’ll know what that is when you watch it.

[00:15:28] NeKisha Killings: Who knows? Who knows? We don’t judge. We don’t judge. Come a long way, that’s it.

[00:15:35] Thea Monyee: I think it’s a long time. I’m thinking this question, maybe we should do five, we all have to figure out our, you know, and, and most of us and people we provide on here, we don’t have straight paths, so, you know, there’s going to be a couple of stops.

[00:15:49] Thea Monyee: Yeah. Yeah. But yeah,

[00:15:50] Stepha LaFond: I think I was, I was going to do be doing what I was doing now. Probably not in the same sense. No, but I was drawn to mothers even before [00:16:00] becoming a mom, working. Briefly with this company called Sacred Pregnancy, doing like their newsletter, talking about how to take care of yourself, like what herbs to use, all of that stuff.

[00:16:13] Stepha LaFond: Like I was just kind of like dipping my toe into that. I hadn’t done like life coach training. I had to transition into that. So that was something that was always a goal of mine from like very early on before like coaching became like this thing. The thing that it is now, but I was still very much in the, I don’t know, female empowerment space, like the disillusions of that.

[00:16:36] Stepha LaFond: That’s a whole nother episode,

[00:16:38] Thea Monyee: but I was just thinking that Crystal, you thought I was, I was sending you the eyes, but okay.

[00:16:45] Stepha LaFond: Yeah. So I think I wanted women, but Definitely not in the way that I’m working now, for sure.

[00:16:54] Crystal Tennille Irby: I think it’s really interesting that you were interested in working with mothers [00:17:00] before, um, you were a mother.

[00:17:01] Crystal Tennille Irby: Because our culture kind of makes it where very few people are interested in motherhood, parenting, Until it happens. Mm-Hmm. to them. And I also think it’s interesting that you always wanted to be a life coach.

[00:17:13] Stepha LaFond: Always. When I was in high school, my friend’s moms would be like, step your friend, they would come to you for advice.

[00:17:20] Stepha LaFond: What?

[00:17:22] Crystal Tennille Irby: Wow. Wow. But if you, if I look, I

[00:17:25] Stepha LaFond: did a chart reading recently, so I, because I’m, I wanna get more acclimated with my chart and that’s something she confirmed. Working like in community and like helping people see things like that’s always been there So

[00:17:39] Crystal Tennille Irby: yeah, oh, I love that. Mm hmm Okay, so you’re here to talk to us about Mattress That’s it.

[00:17:48] Crystal Tennille Irby: Right. That’s it. Mattresson. Mattresson.

[00:17:50] Stepha LaFond: Mattresson. I said Mattresson.

[00:17:53] Crystal Tennille Irby: I said Mattresson.

[00:17:53] Stepha LaFond: I think either one is fine.

[00:17:55] Crystal Tennille Irby: But I think you can get away with it because you have like a little bit of [00:18:00] your Haitian accent. And so it’s like really cute and you know, people like that. But when you’re in the South, it’s just like, well, she don’t know how to talk.

[00:18:06] Crystal Tennille Irby: She can’t pronounce words. So like, I kind of have to say Mattresson. Okay. Mattress. So can you talk to us about why you think it’s so important that we have a conversation about this and can we define mattresses?

[00:18:22] Stepha LaFond: Yeah. So mattresses is the process of becoming a mother and it is a developmental process, similar to.

[00:18:29] Stepha LaFond: adolescence and which there are different domains involved. So a lot of times when we talk about motherhood, we think only about the physical aspect of pregnancy and raising Children. And then we’ve also more recently started talking about the psychological aspect. So hormone imbalances, PMADS, etc. Those are just some things.

[00:18:52] Stepha LaFond: But the process itself involves like multiple areas of your life, including socio political, [00:19:00] economical, spiritual. So there are different aspects of your life that are all being Transform through mattresses. And I think it’s important to understand that this exists as a thing, right? Because if you have teenagers or if you have tweens that are coming of age, even though you may not And everything that they’re going through, you know, that adolescence is something it’s a process of becoming and that they need extra support, maybe extra grace, et cetera,

[00:19:34] Thea Monyee: right?

[00:19:34] Thea Monyee: Just knowing that it gives that makes you think, Oh, give them grace,

[00:19:37] Stepha LaFond: give them grace, right? Where for moms, the thought is. You have a baby, you have six or eight weeks, depending on how you birth. And then that’s it. Like you go, you go off. And then if you want to be a little more, Oh, well, we have the fourth trimester, which when I first had my child, I’m like, Oh, great.

[00:19:57] Stepha LaFond: The fourth trimester, they were just starting to talk about that. [00:20:00] But we all know like, well, after three months, you still were kind of out of sorts. You’re trying to figure a whole lot of shit out. So it can’t just be that. And that’s where I kind of landed on wanting to support mothers. Funny stories. I was working with moms for two years, like kind of going with my experience and just holding the space for what the person in front of me was experiencing right before I knew the term the trust

[00:20:26] Thea Monyee: and

[00:20:27] Stepha LaFond: when I was doing an event, this was November 2019.

[00:20:30] Stepha LaFond: And I kept getting these requests on Facebook from students at Columbia that that were taking a mattress and score. And I was like, what the fuck is Emma Choi,

[00:20:40] what? Mm hmm.

[00:20:42] Stepha LaFond: Stop! Look

[00:20:43] at

[00:20:44] Stepha LaFond: that! And when I tell you, like, that mind blown emoji That was me saying that I was feeling is okay. I became a mother and I and I had great birth experience.

[00:20:53] Stepha LaFond: I had home birth. I was supported by a black midwife because

[00:20:57] Thea Monyee: then they leave.

[00:20:59] Stepha LaFond: There’s

[00:20:59] Thea Monyee: still the [00:21:00] whole process of that process. Yeah, and

[00:21:02] Stepha LaFond: it was for me, like the identity shift that I was experiencing, particularly after having my second child

[00:21:08] Crystal Tennille Irby: that can we just pause at how I love my baby, but that second one and on just hits different and on what you say and on.

[00:21:22] Crystal Tennille Irby: That’s for you, Nick, each other on,

[00:21:25] NeKisha Killings: I received it. I received it. Stand

[00:21:28] Crystal Tennille Irby: on and on and

[00:21:28] NeKisha Killings: on and on. All of that. Well, I

[00:21:30] Crystal Tennille Irby: would say like. Our daughter came to live with us two weeks after we got married. She’s my stepdaughter. And then I had a baby. Then our son came to live with us. And then I had another baby. So when you layer it like that bitch, you know I

[00:21:44] Thea Monyee: lived through

[00:21:45] Crystal Tennille Irby: it with

[00:21:45] Thea Monyee: you.

[00:21:46] Thea Monyee: But when you layer it like that, I didn’t give a fuck. Yeah! It was like birth. Yeah. Child come. Yeah. Yeah. It just really

[00:21:58] Stepha LaFond: hits

[00:21:58] Crystal Tennille Irby: different.

[00:21:59] Stepha LaFond: So there’s a [00:22:00] lot there, right? So when you think of metrosins, if you go through the research, there is No confirmation of where it ends, not like, Oh, you go through this.

[00:22:09] Stepha LaFond: And after six months, it’s over.

[00:22:11] NeKisha Killings: I’m gonna need to end date. I’m gonna need to add some finality to this thing.

[00:22:17] Crystal Tennille Irby: But here’s the thing. Here’s why though, because I know there’s no end to motherhood, but I feel like what you’re telling me is there’s no end to the transitioning. Is that what you’re saying? Oh, wait a minute.

[00:22:31] Crystal Tennille Irby: I gotta grieve for a second.

[00:22:37] Stepha LaFond: Because you see what’s coming! Machu Picchu! It looks different at different stages, and I like to tell people that. So, most of the people I’ve worked with are mothers of young children. So, five and under, right? And I do think that’s important to set the foundation of, you know, who you are as a mother, how you walk through this early phase and define yourself and don’t get lost because when you get lost [00:23:00] in that, it can be hard to climb out of right.

[00:23:02] Stepha LaFond: But I’ve also worked my actually very first client. I wasn’t doing motherhood work at this time, but she came to me for one thing, but it was during the transition of her child, like senior year of high school. And that was a lot of our conversation. Come

[00:23:16] NeKisha Killings: back, Crystal. Come on back.

[00:23:19] Thea Monyee: Wait, she might have a prescription for this.

[00:23:21] Thea Monyee: She might have a prescription. Just come on back in. There might be a prescription. This is not how I thought this was going to go. This is totally It’s all in

[00:23:27] Stepha LaFond: that beautiful ground?

[00:23:28] Thea Monyee: I

[00:23:29] Crystal Tennille Irby: just thought

[00:23:30] Thea Monyee: Nia told us to

[00:23:31] Crystal Tennille Irby: just ride.

[00:23:31] Thea Monyee: I did. I said ride it. I remember I said that could be hard. Anybody else getting hurt?

[00:23:37] Thea Monyee: Look at the

[00:23:39] NeKisha Killings: Keisha. The Keisha’s Because you just signed a new contract a couple of years ago. I keep re signing. I don’t understand what’s happening. Why I keep re signing that contract. Resetting this timeline. Yeah.

[00:23:50] Stepha LaFond: So, matressence starts the process of how you’re feeling, mental, spiritual, emotional. All of that restarts with every child.[00:24:00]

[00:24:00] Stepha LaFond: And it’s not just limited to biological children. Crystal. So when you mentioned, right. So when you mentioned your bonus child came to live with y’all, like that’s a matricence process because now you are mothering that child interwoven into like what’s happening with you. Like there are feelings and emotions, all the things that are happening.

[00:24:26] Stepha LaFond: Are very real

[00:24:27] NeKisha Killings: that that is true. They are real Real than a month.

[00:24:31] Stepha LaFond: This is

[00:24:32] Thea Monyee: thick. This

[00:24:33] NeKisha Killings: is are we still on question? Number one

[00:24:37] Thea Monyee: I think this is like Oh, you know what I got tequila I need you to come back on screen. Are you going to

[00:24:50] Crystal Tennille Irby: get a drink?

[00:24:51] Thea Monyee: Hold on y’all. Don’t worry fam y’all handle this I got

[00:24:59] Thea Monyee: [00:25:00] Casamigos, just a dab, a scotch, a

[00:25:02] Crystal Tennille Irby: scotch. So, and I think mothers have talked about this, but just not openly, but I’m seeing it more and more. Mothers talk about not enjoying motherhood. I’ll say that I had this idea of what pregnancy was going to be like for me. And that shit was grimy as fuck. I’m just going to be real.

[00:25:20] Crystal Tennille Irby: Like when I got hemorrhoids, I was like, fuck this. I’m completely over this shit. It’s nothing like I’m seeing people go through it. Like, I thought I was gonna be fly. I thought I was gonna take, like, the pictures. Rashad and I did this molding. I wish I could see it. It’s, like, totally lopsided. Like, none of my shit.

[00:25:46] Crystal Tennille Irby: It was just grimy. I constantly got rashes. I was sick the whole time. So when our daughter came to live with us, I felt very connected to her. I tell people that my daughter, I believe she’s one of my soulmates. [00:26:00] And when I gave birth to my son, I was obsessed with him in terms of like, Something had come out of me, but if I’m honest, the connection was really difficult for me, and it wasn’t because I was going through postpartum or anything like that.

[00:26:16] Crystal Tennille Irby: I had made a lot of life transitions as well. And so I. Felt like, am I crazy? Like I thought my mother instinct would instantly kicking in and it’s kicking in with this 11 year old, which is also my sweet spot in parenting. Middle school is like my sweet spot in parenting. Like it’s kicking in with this 11 year old who’s not my biological child, but it’s not kicking in with my biological child and I gender and gender.

[00:26:46] Crystal Tennille Irby: And I really did not begin to fully enjoy motherhood. Until three years ago. Yeah. And when I say like motherhood is not the graveyard of dreams, like I had dug myself a [00:27:00] grave and had basically buried myself in motherhood and wasn’t enjoying it. And when I began to realize this can’t be it. Mm-Hmm this, this just can’t be it is when I began to really.

[00:27:13] Crystal Tennille Irby: figure out what is, what is the joy metric in this experience. And it was a process getting there. And I can say like three, maybe four years ago was when it really kicked like this. And I feel a lot of guilt about that because it took, you know, my, my son is 13 and it took that time. And so I do feel a lot of guilt about that, but this is making me feel feel like I wasn’t crazy.

[00:27:38] Crystal Tennille Irby: Like I was really, really going through something and I just didn’t have the language and the world was telling me how this experience was supposed to be. And it, and it wasn’t feeling that way. I want to also say that

[00:27:51] Thea Monyee: I think it’s. natural and okay for us to enjoy some parts of it more than others, some elements of it more than [00:28:00] others.

[00:28:00] Thea Monyee: We sometimes do this very general thing. You either like motherhood or you don’t. And it’s like, no, there are aspects of it. I consistently like and there are aspects of it. I consistently don’t like and there are seasons of it that I like and cycles of it that I like. So I think allowing it to be nuanced is also super important.

[00:28:18] Thea Monyee: I started my motherhood journey at 22. Your brain’s not even fully developed. Nothing’s fully developed, you know? And so, you know, a lot of where I’m now, 20 years later, and where my girls are now, the conversations are so different. My awareness is so different. My understanding of things is so different.

[00:28:35] Thea Monyee: But I, I’m working on giving myself more and more permission to say, not only were there different cycles and phases that I enjoy more than others, they’re different. Things that are associated with motherhood, like some of the domestic shit, I don’t really like to fuck with. One of the happiest times of my motherhood was when they would be with their dad one week, I would have a week.

[00:28:51] Thea Monyee: So there was like balance for me. And then also Oh, pause for

[00:28:55] Crystal Tennille Irby: that. I remember that. Like, I remember when y’all went through the [00:29:00] custody and I was like, Oh bitch, you got the win win. And

[00:29:03] Thea Monyee: I thought that would be really hard for me, but it actually gave me the opportunity in the to like, find myself and balance myself.

[00:29:12] Thea Monyee: And I hire someone to clean the house because I didn’t want to clean up after people. That is not something I enjoy. And after years of cooking meals, I also have lost a lot of the joy for that, but I’ve given myself that grace. And also the fact that. Other outside elements impact how you feel about your motherhood, the partnership you’re having with the person helping you parent, the money that’s coming in, the school you’re interacting.

[00:29:37] Thea Monyee: So it’s hard to say how you feel about your motherhood when there’s all these other pieces that are influenced in how you get to experience your motherhood. I really see this a lot in mental health where when people first come to therapy, the first thing they would talk about their childhood and what their parents didn’t do.

[00:29:52] Thea Monyee: And somebody on Twitter was like, we cannot separate you. Oppression and the fact that our parents were not able to pass on generational wealth [00:30:00] from how they had to parent, right? Like if you had to work that hard and navigate all those things and still come home and be compassionate, I can give way more when I’m worried about money.

[00:30:09] Thea Monyee: I could be so much more available when I’m not thinking about certain things. And so I think it’s really nuanced and we have to give ourselves permission for it to be multifaceted and our joy in it to be in flux. You know, it may not be one thing.

[00:30:23] Crystal Tennille Irby: Yeah, that’s good. I really appreciate that because I do worry about like, did I do any damage?

[00:30:30] Crystal Tennille Irby: And I mean, I’m sure that I

[00:30:32] Thea Monyee: already, I told you, I told my kids, I’m gonna pay for your first succession. I covered that. And I mean that to any parent as a therapist, let them go in, talk shit about you. The therapist is already prepared for that. I want y’all to know this Casa Amigos. I mean, if everyone sponsors, it took the edge off of what Stefan was talking about.

[00:30:49] Thea Monyee: If anybody. Is they listening? I’m not encouraging drinking, but I am encouraging a sponsorship. I’m willing.

[00:30:56] NeKisha Killings: No, no judgment, but I would like to say it is morning where Tia [00:31:00] is and she is enjoying that. That sounds like it’s not judgment. That

[00:31:05] Thea Monyee: does. It’s 1135. I’m impressed. You’re impressed. Are you impressed?

[00:31:10] Thea Monyee: It took this conversation, though, because, you know, I am a tea drinker, y’all. It took this conversation to help me reach what I have to be there.

[00:31:17] Crystal Tennille Irby: I will say, thank God that we were around family. My kids would go to my husband’s parents house. My in laws, who we had a great relationship, who completely respected all of our parenting choices, they would go there every weekend.

[00:31:31] Crystal Tennille Irby: That was great. We would have date nights. My mom would take the kids, like, once a week. And so, had it not been for those things. I don’t know. I know that there are people who go through that transition without that and I have so much compassion for it because I was completely Absolutely, Takesha.

[00:31:50] Crystal Tennille Irby: Military mom. And you were moving a lot. So you didn’t even have like a solid place. Like I had a solid place.

[00:31:59] NeKisha Killings: I am [00:32:00] encouraged by the idea of my tricence because it is, it is about a becoming. That lack of finality, the lack of you never really reach the end of it is problematic. That scares me. Okay. That’s why we all need, that’s why we need Tequila.

[00:32:14] Stepha LaFond: I mean, the research is still being done. So,

[00:32:17] NeKisha Killings: but if I look at it from the other side of it’s a constantly growing, developing, becoming, That for me removes the necessity to get it right and do it perfect and have it all figured out because I am still growing and becoming a mother and there’ll be a lot of different lots of parents of adults say, you know, I get these calls like what I’m gonna say to these people.

[00:32:38] NeKisha Killings: I don’t have the money for the bill. What do I say? Right? We’re talking about that with tomorrow. That you just shift the way that you show up for those children of yours, but you’re still learning because you’ve never done that before until it happens. Right? I’m okay with that.

[00:32:51] Crystal Tennille Irby: Now. I think that’s when I felt a deep shift is parenting an adult child.

[00:32:57] Crystal Tennille Irby: I was thrown back. I was on my [00:33:00] heels. Trying to figure out what is this shift and how to navigate this and feeling like I didn’t know anything so I can get that it’s ongoing. And that was a very difficult transition for me. Well, that

[00:33:13] Stepha LaFond: also goes to you. What do you view your role as a mother to me? Is it to get it perfect and tell your kid everything and fix it?

[00:33:20] Stepha LaFond: Or is it to be a guide that’s walking alongside them through most of these processes? Right? So yeah, there are times where you do need to tell them and show them, but there are times you. mostly have to just kind of let them figure things out. Because if not, your identity gets tied into that version. I’m the fixer.

[00:33:42] Stepha LaFond: I’m the one that they need to do this to do that. And when they’re an adult, and you can no longer do that, you are shattered or you become either resentful or just That parent that now your kids don’t want to talk to you because they’re like, they’re not letting me be a grownup.

[00:33:58] Crystal Tennille Irby: I will drink to that.[00:34:00]

[00:34:05] NeKisha Killings: I’m gonna need to go see what I can put in my mug over here. Cause you’re not gonna be the only one.

[00:34:11] Crystal Tennille Irby: Or it’s the other way. It’s the other way around. You’ve done for them so much. And then when they become an adult, you’re surprised they don’t have the skill set.

[00:34:19] Stepha LaFond: Literally 90 percent of Haitian men don’t have a skill set.

[00:34:26] NeKisha Killings: She just called out 90 percent of Haitian men, 90. What a 10%? Isn’t

[00:34:32] Stepha LaFond: your husband Haitian?

[00:34:33] Stepha LaFond: Only half Haitian.

[00:34:34] NeKisha Killings: Yeah,

[00:34:41] Stepha LaFond: he’s just Haitian enough, but he grew up like in a much more Americanized household where he could do stuff. But my dad, he does stuff. Isn’t your father a doctor? He is! And he knows how to doctor very well, and he doesn’t know how to cook and water plants.

[00:34:57] Thea Monyee: Well, there you go.

[00:34:58] Thea Monyee: Skillsets in certain areas. [00:35:00] I’m gonna request that we just go back to that thing I drank on when we get a chance. I’m gonna need a drink before we do that. For a friend. What are we going back to? Or a friend or two. Well, just that piece about, you know, unraveling your identity from being somebody that’s so central to what they need and fixing things for them.

[00:35:19] Thea Monyee: Sometimes speaking for a friend.

[00:35:21] Crystal Tennille Irby: What’s your friend’s name?

[00:35:22] Thea Monyee: Don’t do it. Don’t do it. I have not gotten their consent.

[00:35:29] Thea Monyee: You do not have my consent. Correct. You do not have my consent. I do not have Makisha’s consent. consent. Thank you. I’m gonna pass you this through the screen. You’re a real one. You’re a real one. I got you. I

[00:35:44] Crystal Tennille Irby: don’t know

[00:35:45] Thea Monyee: where this is gonna go. I don’t want to acknowledge that just like he just said, learning the language of that.

[00:35:52] Thea Monyee: This is an ongoing process because there’s a point of burnout that my friend might have experience where you [00:36:00] feel like I have supplied all these things. Why aren’t they applying it? And you realize it’s because you’ve been the fixer. You’ve been so central to it that now you have to be patient as you encourage them to do that on their own.

[00:36:14] Thea Monyee: But I will say also with this generation, there’s a big difference. Thank you. My daughter has brought me carrot cake. There’s a big difference because I will say this post COVID and this current generation, Crystal and I talked about this. Yeah. I’m going to say it. Just hold on. Do your series. Do your series.

[00:36:30] Thea Monyee: Do your series. Do your

[00:36:31] Crystal Tennille Irby: series.

[00:36:33] Thea Monyee: Let me get up in here for this. I might have to pass you the box on this one. If you get it right, I’ll pass you the box. So we’re raising the generation that came after No Child Left Behind, which taught teaching to the test. And so the part about the critical thinking, the problem solving that we used to get is not being taught.

[00:36:57] Thea Monyee: Because they were taught to learn according to the test. [00:37:00] They’re trying to reverse some of that, but the issue is, they were so focused on creating employees. And the entrepreneurs and CEOs that they wanted people who were just compliant. And so now when we ask this generation to critically think about a problem, one, we have not taught that the whole academic year, we’ve just said, pass the test or do the thing, or just follow the instructions because we were training them to be employees.

[00:37:23] Thea Monyee: The other part is that we’ve. Flooded them with mental health knowledge without context. And so now when they can’t do it, they’re like, it’s my anxiety. It’s my, this is my, that. And the thing about mental health language, it was never really intended for public consumption. It was never meant to be like a public lexicon is not meant to be applied.

[00:37:43] Thea Monyee: And the way that it’s applied. So then when they don’t have the bandwidth or the tolerance, because in addition to that, their attention spans have gotten shorter, tech has gotten faster, being able to get what you want faster, patience is shorter, all these things, right? Less human contact, more tech contact have just diminished the capacity [00:38:00] to have.

[00:38:00] Thea Monyee: The bandwidth to tolerate when I can’t immediately be gratified in something. And I don’t have the skillset to process through how I feel about that process through ways to navigate that. And when I can’t, I have a label for it. There’s also this place that metrescence meets with the times, like what’s happening in culture.

[00:38:28] Thea Monyee: And then you add COVID, right? So then when we talk about the external factors that influence your journey and whether you can enjoy it, some of this is not even about your relationship. It’s about external changes that are happening, so clearly that impact.

[00:38:42] Crystal Tennille Irby: Your ability to feel like I thought we was on the same page.

[00:38:44] Crystal Tennille Irby: And then you’re adjusting your parenting to that. While you’re adjusting as well, just the same social changes. That’s really interesting because my motherhood started when social media Really hit its [00:39:00] thing, like with

[00:39:00] Thea Monyee: Facebook, there’s a lot of variables there. And I’m wondering if Steph was seeing that in her practice because mothers who are mothering right now, it’s a whole different, it’s different.

[00:39:10] Thea Monyee: I get so many questions that

[00:39:11] Stepha LaFond: are like, well, is this normal motherhood or is it COVID? Because people who have had kids in the last three years. There are certain things that they’re experiencing that’s just different, you know, depending on where they were on the spectrum, most of them were very conservative as far as like not letting their children outside, didn’t interact with a lot of other moms, etc.

[00:39:32] Stepha LaFond: So they didn’t have even like the early mom groups that some of us found. Like, you know, Oh, we’re going to this activity. We’re going to this. They didn’t do any of that. Oh, it’s had an impact on people. And I think it’s interesting what you said about critical thinking. If your child hasn’t had that, or if you haven’t necessarily worked that muscle out, that can be really different.

[00:39:55] Stepha LaFond: in understanding how to approach certain situations. I know for us, we [00:40:00] think about that a lot.

[00:40:01] Thea Monyee: Like I was saying, homeschooled children or children, unschooled children are the ones I’m seeing who have that skill set. Those who went through traditional public education systems or even private education systems did not get that piece.

[00:40:13] Thea Monyee: Yeah, I

[00:40:14] Stepha LaFond: know I didn’t. All right. I did early childhood in Haiti. So up until sixth grade and then sixth grade here. Since we’re on here, and I was always a good student, like the a student, and I think while that helped me in a lot of situations, but it also like as an adult, when I wanted to do different things and branch out of like traditional corporate, it caused a lot of self doubt.

[00:40:38] Stepha LaFond: I didn’t have the answer and that affected my mothering and builds perfectionism inside of you. It builds kind of like the fear of getting things wrong, but all of a sudden you were worried about random people’s opinions. Why wait, why do I care about this? I don’t even know

[00:40:53] Thea Monyee: about them. That’s

[00:40:54] Stepha LaFond: how we are ingrained.

[00:40:57] Stepha LaFond: I know in my motherhood that has helped me. Like, I don’t [00:41:00] want my children to be like that. I put them in the hippie esque frame. Free thinking. Yes, I can find. Yes. Somebody sent me a picture earlier of my son there. They were on the shore. They had shores. Yeah, he found a crab. Oh,

[00:41:14] Thea Monyee: yeah. I

[00:41:14] Stepha LaFond: know. That’s not the typical first rate experience.

[00:41:16] Stepha LaFond: People are like, wait, what is he doing? I’m like, I don’t know. Every, every Friday they go to the beach for a couple of hours and they dig. That’s their learning.

[00:41:31] Crystal Tennille Irby: Hey Magic Makers, I wanted to jump in here right quick and let you know about our merch of the month, which is our Black Mama Magic card deck. The intention of this 54 card deck is to remind you that you have the power and right to define your motherhood on your own terms. Terms without limitations. Let me say that again.

[00:41:52] Crystal Tennille Irby: You have the power and right to define your motherhood on your own terms without [00:42:00] limitations. You can choose a card from the deck. Whenever you feel the ground shifting beneath your feet, once a month, daily, or once a week, there are 54 cards in the deck. So the cards can actually take you through the year and y’all know Dem Black Mamas loves a good.

[00:42:17] Crystal Tennille Irby: Playlist. So the deck also comes with a QR code to listen to our black healing playlist. You can find your deck at bit. ly forward slash black mama magic card deck. Again, that’s bit. ly forward slash black mama magic card deck, or in the show notes on our website at demblackmamas. com. That’s D E M black mamas, M A N.

[00:42:44] Crystal Tennille Irby: M a s dot com. Now let’s get back to the magic y’all.

[00:42:56] Crystal Tennille Irby: Yeah, I don’t know where I got critical thinking skills from

[00:42:59] NeKisha Killings: being a [00:43:00] child in the eighties.

[00:43:01] Crystal Tennille Irby: Oh,

[00:43:02] NeKisha Killings: let’s

[00:43:08] Thea Monyee: How are we going to eat? How are we going to keep these light zones? That’s how folks started sharing cable and shit. Creative, creative is fun.

[00:43:20] NeKisha Killings: Crystal, your mom was working third shift. You were like self sufficient. Yeah, you had to figure

[00:43:26] Thea Monyee: some things

[00:43:27] Crystal Tennille Irby: out. You had to figure some things out. My mom worked 3 p.

[00:43:29] Crystal Tennille Irby: m. To 3 a. m. There was dinner there, but it’s not like it is in my house. Like our daughter grew up with an adult always at home. She was never at home alone and it wasn’t because we, you know, didn’t want to leave her alone. It was just like. The nature of the privilege, you know what I’m saying? So my husband, I have had conversations where he’s like, well, when I was such and such, I was, and I’m like, but she didn’t grow up like that.

[00:43:53] Crystal Tennille Irby: So she doesn’t have that. So thinking about that, Stefanie, when you say it’s ongoing, are [00:44:00] you transitioning as your kids are transitioning? Yeah, I

[00:44:03] Stepha LaFond: think, I think it’s both. Like you may have a transition of just what’s going on in your life. Life, whether it’s like personal business, whatever, that your children aren’t having that big of a transition.

[00:44:14] Stepha LaFond: But a lot of times there are transitional periods as your kids are transitioning because

[00:44:20] Thea Monyee: what

[00:44:20] Stepha LaFond: it takes to raise an eight year old, as you were doing with the 11 and 12. Oh, no. I mean, that’s major. That’s a big thing. That’s when it gets so,

[00:44:33] Crystal Tennille Irby: that’s so interesting. Cause I also think about, I’ll be. Pre menopausal or in menopause when my youngest to enter high school and I never even thought about that like that.

[00:44:45] Crystal Tennille Irby: Yeah, and you’ll be going

[00:44:46] Thea Monyee: through your

[00:44:46] Stepha LaFond: own. Yeah, and how do you hold space for that? Oh, well, they’re going to high school. I got to take care of the high school. Well, yes, and.

[00:44:56] Thea Monyee: And

[00:44:56] Stepha LaFond: these are flashes though. Yeah, it’s not [00:45:00] flashes and how you’re feeling in your body, what’s going on. And I think they are earlier, you mentioned something about multiple transitions and that’s the part, that’s the part where I want people to understand, not that they can stop the transition, but how.

[00:45:16] Stepha LaFond: How did you process that transition that you’re going through? Because most of the time when folks come to work with me, it’s never like, I had a baby was a big transition. No, it was like, I have a baby. I moved this. I’m doing this. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.

[00:45:32] Thea Monyee: That’s so good stuff because that Ties into the black woman, superwoman trope that we don’t know when we doing a lot, we will act like that’s normal.

[00:45:41] Thea Monyee: Crystal, you talked about it. You got married, you had a baby, you had a child, California to South Carolina, California. You all that was happening around that birth.

[00:45:51] Crystal Tennille Irby: It wasn’t just like a distance transition. It was like, I lived in Los Angeles. Culture, scenery, smells, [00:46:00] everything. Because when you live in Los Angeles and even more so than New York, when you live in Los Angeles, you don’t feel like you’re in the United States.

[00:46:07] Crystal Tennille Irby: You feel like you’re in a different country. Like it’s like somebody I should have had a passport to come here. This shit is way different. Right. When I would come back home time to time, I’d be like, Oh. I’m in the United States, but moving and then getting married and then having a baby and

[00:46:23] Thea Monyee: it’s so many transitions thinking about that stuff.

[00:46:26] Thea Monyee: I feel like going back to that piece about grace that you were talking about earlier, I think. Having kids that are in the age where they’re trying to figure out what they want to do in the world, who they want to be in the world, they’re 19, 17, 15, I’m learning to make way more space for my own humanity.

[00:46:42] Thea Monyee: And so, for example, I just went on a trip, whenever I come back from this trip, I have like, a 30 day downer because it’s, it’s in Egypt and it’s freeing and it’s liberating for me. And then I come back and I’m coming back to roles and a sense of responsibility and America. And my oldest went to Paris, which [00:47:00] was her dream last summer.

[00:47:01] Thea Monyee: And so I felt comfortable communicating with her and that she would understand and relate to that sadness. And so stuff that I used to hide from them when they were little, like mommy’s okay, you know, I now am like, I’m not okay. That’s why she keeps bringing me some smoothies. She’s taking care of me.

[00:47:20] Thea Monyee: And I’m learning to say, okay, please. I’m learning to refuse that crack. And I’m learning that this is now becoming a little bit more symbiotic. And that’s a beautiful part of this transition. Even though sometimes I feel like the stakes are higher because of their ages and the choices that they can make.

[00:47:35] Thea Monyee: I can also deeply receive. and be more human and less superhero with them at this point. So I think all we can do because it is an ongoing crisis is be present. I feel like there’s just always going to be a multitude of things. Let’s say we got our dream career outcomes and opportunities right now, right?

[00:47:53] Thea Monyee: We would have to hold space for so many elements of that dream if that were to happen right now. [00:48:00] And so being present with feeling multiple things at the same time. I can be sad and I can enjoy this and I can be effective at work because I want to be because I’m enjoying it not because I have to be and I can also be in conflict and all those things can coexist.

[00:48:17] Thea Monyee: It’s such a practice and presence that I think I really did need parenting to teach me that level of presence, that level of detail.

[00:48:25] Crystal Tennille Irby: So what are the particular challenges that you feel like Black mothers face when transitioning to motherhood?

[00:48:32] Stepha LaFond: I hate Black moms. There’s just so much there because expectation of black women and the things that we carry.

[00:48:38] Stepha LaFond: The first thing that comes to mind is economically.

[00:48:41] Thea Monyee: We’re

[00:48:42] Stepha LaFond: more likely to be at the disadvantage than other moms. So in the sense that we’re more likely to be the ones like making more money. So there’s a disadvantage there if you’re your mother and you’re doing that, but you’re taking on like financial aspects [00:49:00] of having a household and really feeling like you need to hold on to that part and for it to carry the family.

[00:49:07] Stepha LaFond: So that happens a lot. I think fear. I didn’t see it as much in the beginning, but now because we know what we know about black maternal health, And the disparities in health care, I think there is fear when people are coming into motherhood. Like, am I going to die? Yeah. Am I going to die? Even if you don’t die, like if you get really shitty treatment, that’s traumatic

[00:49:31] Thea Monyee: and

[00:49:32] Stepha LaFond: like you don’t want that to have an imprint on your motherhood and like how you’re raising your children.

[00:49:38] Crystal Tennille Irby: Oh, that had a tremendous imprint on my motherhood. I wish I would have had some healing immediately because. I do think I had some feelings toward my son, um, because of my pregnancy experience. And I didn’t feel like it was his fault, but I felt like those experiences caused a disconnect. I didn’t know healing for that was available [00:50:00] at the time.

[00:50:01] Stepha LaFond: Well, I think the thing about birth is when you are giving birth, like no matter what happened, it does have an implication. If you feel empowered in birth, even if it’s a C section, but you feel like you were able to make some decisions. People listen to you, then you feel that you can bring that same energy to aspects of your mother.

[00:50:23] Stepha LaFond: Like you feel like people are going to hear me. I think that’s true. People are going to listen to me. My voice is important. What I need is important. Where if you don’t have that, then that becomes really hard. And if you haven’t taken the time to like grapple with what the birth story was, was there healing that was needed?

[00:50:41] Stepha LaFond: Do you need to forgive yourself? What are some of the things?

[00:50:46] NeKisha Killings: It hit, it hit. Hold on. I need a minute.

[00:50:50] Stepha LaFond: Oh my God.

[00:50:51] Thea Monyee: Okay. We got tequila. We got tequila. You can grab the bottle. And hugs. We got

[00:50:55] Stepha LaFond: tequila, hugs. We got all the sunshine. This is not [00:51:00] where

[00:51:00] NeKisha Killings: I was expecting. We knew it beforehand. We were like, why are we lighting all this sage and aloe vera.

[00:51:05] NeKisha Killings: We did. We started lighting. Oh, you did start lighting. This was going to be one of those moments. Yeah. One of those days.

[00:51:12] Crystal Tennille Irby: I think that’s so real. Like when you said, forgive yourself. Yeah. I don’t think I have forgiven myself.

[00:51:17] NeKisha Killings: Yeah.

[00:51:17] Crystal Tennille Irby: For what piece? I do feel like because my birth was traumatic and I was talked out of every decision surrounding birth and then just not repairing my body because I didn’t know.

[00:51:33] Crystal Tennille Irby: I just realized I do feel guilt about that. And then once I began to make that transitioning to mothering him, it was just, it was really hard. It was just really hard coming out of that birth. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And On top of reimagining yourself, because again, you know, I was in L. A. for eight years and thought my life was going to be one way, and [00:52:00] it had been another way.

[00:52:01] Crystal Tennille Irby: And also, I think when you are transitioning into parenting and into motherhood, it’s when you begin to think more about how you were parented. It’s a deeper Understanding of it. I know I began to see my father a lot more clearly. And so also just forgiving myself for not having that compassion for him that I know I’m going to need from my son.

[00:52:26] Crystal Tennille Irby: Because now I can understand like, maybe he didn’t feel a connection. Maybe he thought he would feel a connection and he didn’t. There’s so much more now that I can understand and that I can see. And just when you said forgiving yourself, that just hit me because I’m like, Oh, wow, that’s it. There’s things that I have not forgiven myself for around my birth story.

[00:52:50] Crystal Tennille Irby: And around that transition to motherhood.

[00:52:52] Thea Monyee: It’s also like, there’s some colonization in us, and even in that, right? My body didn’t show up for me. You and that baby [00:53:00] being alive was the showing us what I’m saying is that capitalism and colonization teaches us to hold on to the most painful aspects of that and not to release it to the natural cycle of, and this too belongs.

[00:53:14] Thea Monyee: And this too belongs, which is very prominent in African Eastern practices. So has the person who’s watched you through those experiences. I’m saying that a lot of the evolution that you’ve come into, including your own clairvoyance, including your dream, including your own spiritual power, I don’t know if the universe didn’t perfectly orchestrate that.

[00:53:35] Thea Monyee: And even use the people in those moments who we hated at that time to. birth more than just your son, but your gifts and your opportunity to heal and be renewed in a new

[00:53:48] Crystal Tennille Irby: way. You know what I’m

[00:53:49] Thea Monyee: saying? Does that

[00:53:50] Crystal Tennille Irby: make sense? It does make sense. And I think that’s true. And I think that that’s what that self forgiveness piece brings up for me, like the possibility of, Of of, of [00:54:00] opening.

[00:54:01] Crystal Tennille Irby: Yeah. Mm-Hmm. And I just think that that’s, yeah. A beautiful question to ask someone transitioning into motherhood. Mm-Hmm. , whatever it is. I mean, maybe it’s not your birth story, maybe it’s another story. What are you bringing forward into this experience as you transition? But that transition is so much about Get back to it.

[00:54:20] Crystal Tennille Irby: Get back to it. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. this shit. Click in this shit. Click in. And, Mm-Hmm. it. Does it? I think that’s

[00:54:27] Stepha LaFond: another thing with black moms, too. By the time we’re mothers or even if you become a mother, whether you’re young or like a little bit older, so much is expected of us. Yes. So we think that we have to show up as these super people

[00:54:40] Thea Monyee: all

[00:54:41] Stepha LaFond: the time.

[00:54:42] Stepha LaFond: In all aspects. And I can think of like, okay, now what I’m seeing is the whole snap back, right? I’m supposed to look this way. It’s supposed to go perfect this way. So there’s a lot of struggling. If maybe they have to stop working. They [00:55:00] had a business. I had a client once, you know, she had a business through pandemic.

[00:55:03] Stepha LaFond: So this was experiencing multiple things. Pandemic happened, had to close her business, all of these things. Yet she was just wanted to get back. Yeah, hold on. How can we sit here? What do you need to learn here before you rush back to whatever the things are? And at the end of that program, she thanked me.

[00:55:22] Stepha LaFond: She was just like, you know what? I thought I was coming for something, you know, to reconnect with my ambition. But. I realize I have had more healing to do. Don’t we all right. That is the gift. Like, can you gift yourself down a little bit?

[00:55:37] Thea Monyee: Can you give us a gift?

[00:55:39] Stepha LaFond: I

[00:55:42] Thea Monyee: like that language

[00:55:43] Crystal Tennille Irby: gift yourself. What can you get

[00:55:45] Thea Monyee: yourself?

[00:55:46] Crystal Tennille Irby: Yeah. Yeah. There’s so much there. The whole getting back to, I think a turning point for me, a healing point for me was when I realized I’m not getting back to anything. Like, what am I expanding into? I’m not giving up myself. [00:56:00] I’m expanding. I’m not burying myself. I’m becoming more alive, but it’s like, I don’t know.

[00:56:08] Crystal Tennille Irby: It’s weird. It’s like, We’re taught to hope to try to get back to this identity, but we’ve had this major thing happen. Right. So why don’t we teach people how to move forward? I mean, that’s what you do. You teach people how to move forward.

[00:56:20] Stepha LaFond: Well, yeah, it is. And right. Interesting to me that people still don’t have the concept.

[00:56:25] Stepha LaFond: So like when I’m working with them, I’m like, okay, we got to know how far you will go. Because until you unlearn capitalism, and in the many ways it seeps into. Everything that you do and thinking you have to be productive thinking you need to only look a certain way. This is the only way you will be accepted, et cetera, literally being everything at home.

[00:56:49] Stepha LaFond: And even when I’m like, well, what about your husband? What about your partner? You’re like, well, did you talk to him about that? Oh, no. Feeling like you, I don’t, I don’t want

[00:56:56] Crystal Tennille Irby: to burden. You

[00:56:57] Stepha LaFond: don’t want to burn it, but you’re burning yourself. [00:57:00] Since you’re burning yourself over everything. But I have so many people I’ve talked to.

[00:57:06] Stepha LaFond: I’m like, if you are going to do this work, like we’re going to have to. Shift something

[00:57:10] Thea Monyee: decolonize it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:13] Stepha LaFond: When I tell people, well, there are systems that are affecting the way they’re like, what system?

[00:57:17] Thea Monyee: Yeah. And we also come from a legacy where we’re like, well, grandma did this and great grandma did this and Harry Tentman did this.

[00:57:24] Thea Monyee: And yeah, you know, so Janet, you did this. And it’s like, and I appreciate eating every single one. Thank you. I bring flowers to the all, sir. I put out food for the ancestors. And I don’t think any of them were like, Let’s break our back with this shit so that in 10 generations, they can break their backs too.

[00:57:46] Thea Monyee: Right. And I talk about that all the time. Nobody does that. Nobody says, let me just go through hell. So that in 10, 10 generations, they can go through hell too. I just don’t think that’s even

[00:57:58] Stepha LaFond: logical. Just because your mama did it. [00:58:00] What if she didn’t have a choice? She didn’t know any better. And one thing about motherhood too, I know, I think Crystal and you mentioned like giving grace, like Giving grace to your parents, understanding like what your parents went through or understanding some of that was due to being disadvantaged due to colonization that they didn’t have choices.

[00:58:21] Stepha LaFond: And the vision, how you get free, you can make different choices and what a blessing that is. You don’t have to hold on to being superwoman to doing everything. And you can retire some

[00:58:35] Thea Monyee: of that. Like, we can hang grandma’s jersey and be like, She did that. Let me hang that jersey in the living room. You know what I’m saying?

[00:58:44] Thea Monyee: But cooking eight meals a day, we have to question with love and curiosity and not judgment what we were taught, not because it’s right or wrong, but is it still effective? Is it [00:59:00] still culturally, socially needed, relevant? If not, retire it and let it evolve. I was with some students the other day talking about vulnerability.

[00:59:09] Thea Monyee: And it was different age groups on this call. There was some younger folks and there was some elders in the space. And they were like, we’re not vulnerable because people might use it against us. And you know, that sounds like some old school, like path on. So I told them, I said, instead of saying what your grandmama and grandmama talked about not being vulnerable, what about curating your space so that the only people you are around are people you can be vulnerable with?

[00:59:35] Thea Monyee: We’re talking about the 60s. You know, it was Black people that sold us out in some of these civil rights episodes and moments. It was our people who did that to us. And I get it. Currently, though, you have choices about who will be around you. You can decide. That’s a word. Only what emotionally intelligent, emotionally mature, emotionally capable people around me And if they’re not in my family, that’s okay.

[00:59:57] Thea Monyee: Yeah.

[00:59:57] Stepha LaFond: The other thing is that came to mind, asking for help. [01:00:00] People don’t want to ask for help because they’re like, Oh, well, they’re going to turn it on me. So it’s a sign of weakness. It’s very deep. Like who can support you? I always ask folks who can support you with this.

[01:00:13] Crystal Tennille Irby: There’s a post on Facebook about au pairs and it’s a woman of color.

[01:00:18] Crystal Tennille Irby: And she talks about how the au pair has. Her life or whatever. Like you said, the we live in a new day where a lot of people don’t live near their family anymore. When I was growing up, we went three months out of the year, like a solid three months and stayed with my dad’s sister and husband and travel.

[01:00:38] Crystal Tennille Irby: They took us everywhere in the summertime. My But grandma, my aunts picked me up from cheerleading practice. So there was a bunch of people contributing to my rearing. So my mom wasn’t doing all the picking up, all the feeding, all of that. She wasn’t. There was a support system, right? But now that we have moved farther away, From our parents, that support [01:01:00] system isn’t necessarily there.

[01:01:01] Crystal Tennille Irby: And so people are hiring other people. But if you could have seen this post and most of the commenters, because it was a black woman who was posting where black women judging this black woman and saying things like, Oh, you need to raise your own kids. It’s no way. I would have somebody come into my house around my husband.

[01:01:20] Crystal Tennille Irby: Yep. If that person is doing the cooking and cleaning and being with your kids, what are you doing? There was also another post where this woman, she had just had a baby. The baby wasn’t even a month old. And she posted on Instagram about how her night doula nurse, night nurse. So like at, at six o’clock, she was handing that baby over.

[01:01:43] Crystal Tennille Irby: Oh, she was only being Awaken to feed the baby because she was breastfeeding, which she felt like she was much better at because she was more relaxed. But at six o’clock, she was running a bath. She’s put on a pajamas. Like she went through her whole routine after her night [01:02:00] nurse come. Folks was mad. Folks was big mad.

[01:02:03] Crystal Tennille Irby: Oh, they were mad. Real mad.

[01:02:04] Thea Monyee: Big mad. I’m going to tell you why the folks is really mad. Y’all want to know? Can you tell us, Tia? Do the people want to know? I think the people want to know.

[01:02:10] Crystal Tennille Irby: I think the people want to

[01:02:11] Thea Monyee: know. Cause you didn’t even know there was a night nurse. or an au pair you didn’t even know that was available and you mad because whoever I’m about to get real personal whoever you didn’t decide to be up in your situation with It’s all in your credit and finances.

[01:02:29] Thea Monyee: Therefore the option to have these services for you is not quite available. And so you be big, big mad because you did not cultivate the kind of life that would allow you to tap into these kinds of services or the kind of freedom or sovereignty that would allow you to be like, bitch, you coming in on my post.

[01:02:48] Thea Monyee: But I’m going to do it for whoever those sisters are and say, that sounds lovely. If I could recommend a lavender chamomile bath, I would like to offer that.

[01:02:59] Crystal Tennille Irby: [01:03:00] That’s

[01:03:00] Thea Monyee: just jealousy.

[01:03:01] Crystal Tennille Irby: That’s

[01:03:02] Thea Monyee: nothing,

[01:03:03] Crystal Tennille Irby: but it’s jealousy, but it’s also this idea passed down or this myth passed down that number one, we can do it all.

[01:03:10] Crystal Tennille Irby: And number two, that. We are solely responsible, like, like, only we can contribute to our homes, only we can contribute to our children. That’s not even African

[01:03:23] NeKisha Killings: centered. I would like to confess, I would like to confess.

[01:03:26] Thea Monyee: Yes. I saw you do this, so I said

[01:03:29] Crystal Tennille Irby: something good. The film was tough. Okay. Because you’ve been awfully quiet.

[01:03:32] Crystal Tennille Irby: Make a confession. It’s okay, my child. This

[01:03:35] Stepha LaFond: is my confession.

[01:03:37] NeKisha Killings: As a Lytasia consultant, there were some, some concerning things that occurred in the video with the night doula. There were concerns about lack of closeness between mother and baby, her being able to be responsive to baby’s needs because baby was on a whole other floor with a whole other human.

[01:03:52] NeKisha Killings: Even the night doula sat the baby down to wash the dishes, wash the, you know, bottles, do all the things. So baby was not necessarily having that constant closeness. [01:04:00] With the parent that they could have and should have had so that’s from the baby’s perspective from mama’s perspective though for show Mama was getting well rested So as a little struggle for me to sit in the place, but Keisha, that’s not what the comments were about

[01:04:16] Thea Monyee: Well, I also just want to say what if that baby Like the little variety.

[01:04:20] Thea Monyee: Who’s speaking on behalf of the baby? Is there an attorney here to represent the baby? Because one of the babies was like, Ooh, this bitch smell like raspberry. That other one smell like butter. I need a little break. I mean, I totally get what you’re saying. And I also I think there may be room for multiple ways for these things to be happening and multiple ways for even the baby to be able to develop multiple relationships of closeness.

[01:04:46] Thea Monyee: This is why I’m confessing because I see

[01:04:48] NeKisha Killings: now where there was a lot of,

[01:04:50] Crystal Tennille Irby: a lot more room for me to offer grace on all sides. But Nikisha, that’s not what the comments were saying. What nobody worried about from a breastfeeding perspective. Girl, [01:05:00] nobody said nothing about breastfeeding. They were just judging her.

[01:05:02] Crystal Tennille Irby: It was complete judgment. Because that’s even offering some insight. Like, okay, you may want to think about this. Nobody can be worked out between the night and

[01:05:13] Stepha LaFond: the mother. That’s the difference between like a calling in. Right. Are you attacking somebody or are you calling them in and being like, I love what you’re doing there.

[01:05:23] Stepha LaFond: How am for, how is that working for the baby? Is your production milk production fine? Are you finding like the closeness is needed? That’s how you call somebody in and have them think about that. If they haven’t already, rather than just attacking them. Because that’s what happened on the internet, right?

[01:05:39] Stepha LaFond: People attack people. Internet is kind of like microsco macroscopic looking on real life. Because that was probably what would happen in a real life situation if her over there across the street had that. And y’all are out here hating because

[01:05:55] Crystal Tennille Irby: you don’t have that. I don’t even think one person contributing to the child’s life [01:06:00] is American because Yeah.

[01:06:02] Crystal Tennille Irby: White people went right to a number of different countries, to young people raise their, to bring people into this country to raise their children. So the idea that America pushes that 2.5 children, two parent home, all of that’s a myth because that’s not the history of any family in America. That’s not the history of white family.

[01:06:26] Crystal Tennille Irby: That’s not the history of black family either. Mm. This whole idea that you are the sole provider for your children on every single level is completely a myth of motherhood. That’s completely a myth. I would also

[01:06:40] Thea Monyee: say like, there’s black people who have family members that move in. Latino families will have family that lives with you.

[01:06:45] Thea Monyee: How is that different than having this person come in and assist? If you’re separated from family, if you don’t have family there, you have to create. formal resources. That means you have to pay for them. But the reality is we do this. I don’t understand [01:07:00] why people are over dramatizing it. I just answer my own question.

[01:07:03] Thea Monyee: The reason they were judging it is because it alleviated her suffering. And we cannot imagine black motherhood absent suffering because that is a part of The rite of passage of being a black mother and because it alleviated her suffering which increased her joy increased her pleasure And I’m sure increased her presence with that baby During the day and during the times that she was with that baby is because she should have been suffering you should suffer through it That’s how you learn to be a mother That is not how you have to learn to be unless you’re being a mother who’s learning how to teach your children how to suffer But if you’re a mother that’s teaching your children from jump to prioritize their needs, that they are sovereign and important, then this shit sounds like it’s on track.

[01:07:44] Thea Monyee: I suffered, so you should suffer too. That’s always it. That was it with R. Kelly. Every time we see Black women come out like that, it’s I suffered and you should have to suffer too. And I love you and respectfully tell you to mind your own fucking business.

[01:07:58] Crystal Tennille Irby: And this was two different posts. [01:08:00] So like when I saw it on the first post with the au pair, I was like, Oh my God, like, and then there was like a black au pair on there.

[01:08:05] Crystal Tennille Irby: And she was like, well, I was an au pair. I wasn’t interested in stealing someone’s husband.

[01:08:09] Stepha LaFond: And it’s like, what’s wrong with the niggas y’all picking? Kick the husband now and kick the au pair. I’m

[01:08:19] NeKisha Killings: not ready for this conversation, y’all.

[01:08:22] Thea Monyee: That’s it.

[01:08:23] NeKisha Killings: Listen.

[01:08:25] Thea Monyee: If that is your worry, your problem is not over here.

[01:08:27] Thea Monyee: I

[01:08:27] Stepha LaFond: have a future suggestion for a, um, a podcast. Um, what is the role of fathers? Like for real? Because. It boggles my mind when my husband does some regular parenting shit.

[01:08:42] Thea Monyee: Oh, don’t get me

[01:08:43] Stepha LaFond: started. Oh

[01:08:43] Thea Monyee: my God, you’re so lucky. Oh my God, you’re so present. You’re so lucky. Here’s the thing, if that dad had posted that he got help in his fatherhood and da da da da, they’d be like, that is so good because we want you to stay in the home.

[01:08:56] Thea Monyee: This is the 80s crack epidemic again though, y’all. I [01:09:00] swear Y’all got so scared about a black man dying a crack or going to jail. Y’all got so scared about it. You begin to just really baby folks around here and make like really mediocre shit. Like, Oh my God, he comes home. Where is he going to go? Like, what do you mean?

[01:09:17] Thea Monyee: He came home. Like really? So if your conversation around her getting help is about her man cheating, you is so low vibrational. You is. So low vibration, though, I think I got my black mama say y’all

[01:09:31] Crystal Tennille Irby: okay. What, what do you feel like the one thing is that black mothers can immediately decide to unlearn or help them transition into their motherhood in a way that’s rooted in liberation.

[01:09:49] Crystal Tennille Irby: Like, cause I think that a lot of black mothers are stuck and that stuckness is hyper focus on the children, you know, so [01:10:00] even if your child is nine, like mine was, I don’t think a lot of black mothers has fully transitioned from giving birth to who am I now.

[01:10:09] Stepha LaFond: I think it goes back to some of the things that we’ve covered, like unlearning that you have to be the superhero, that you have to wear this cape all the time and learning yourself, like, what is it that you need at this moment?

[01:10:24] Stepha LaFond: Like, what would feel good to you? Because I, Look at my mom now and my brothers are 42, 42 years later, she hasn’t learned to like tap into like what makes her be like taking time for that. And I think it’s important to have those moments because it grounds you in your humanness. And it’s great to do it when your children are around because they can see that you’re human too.

[01:10:53] Stepha LaFond: So you’re not perfect. You’re not a superhero. Sometimes you’re late. Maybe a lot of times you’re late. [01:11:00] Sometimes you forget. Sometimes you’re sad. I think that’s part of. But the lesson that you can teach them, because they can be human with you too, then they won’t have scared. I can tell my mom because my mom was perfect and she expects me to be perfect.

[01:11:19] Stepha LaFond: Like, no, we’re all here being, yeah, that’s it.

[01:11:24] Thea Monyee: This was so good. I mean, it drove me to drink, but it was good. You know what I learned from you today to step is we’re afraid to let motherhood because we’re thinking of it through the colonized capitalist way. But if we think of it in the purest sense of what it’s here to do, it is here to change us.

[01:11:41] Thea Monyee: It is here to expand us towards a greater version of who we are and deeper relationships. So we do not have to be afraid of motherhood changes. We need to accept that it does change and that And that we can be a part of shaping and accepting and what’s the, what I want to say, like projecting where that change can go, you know?

[01:11:59] Crystal Tennille Irby: [01:12:00] So Steffa, where can the people reach you?

[01:12:03] Stepha LaFond: unlearning underscore motherhood.

[01:12:05] Crystal Tennille Irby: And that’s where people can find you

[01:12:07] Stepha LaFond: on Instagram.

[01:12:09] Crystal Tennille Irby: Thank you so much,

[01:12:09] NeKisha Killings: Stepha. We love you, Stepha. Thanks for joining us again.

[01:12:19] NeKisha Killings: Our final segment, Black Mama Say, is where we put our own twist on sayings from Black mamas. This Black Mama Say is not something we say to our children, although we may think it, but it’s definitely something we say to each other when we are stunned, shocked, or feel folks are testing us. Or taking us for granted this week’s or this episode’s black mama say is oh bitch or oh really

[01:12:44] Crystal Tennille Irby: bitch Oh nikisha, that was good.

[01:12:46] Crystal Tennille Irby: That was good. That was good. I’m going first. Okay Well, let me just say I like this because it can also be a warning like prepare yourself for what i’m about to say Okay, go thea

[01:12:55] Thea Monyee: go thea. So, you know, I was gone for a couple weeks [01:13:00] At abroad so I wasn’t driving and I came back To Los Angeles, California.

[01:13:06] Thea Monyee: And I saw gas prices as high as seven something dollars. And I was like, Oh, really bitch? I was literally just in the middle East. I have no idea what the fuck this is about. You were in Africa. Well, listen, by the time I was looking at your TV, I was like, no, this shit. I never seen too many Saudi Arabian. I was like, Oh, this shit is like Arab, Arab.

[01:13:29] Thea Monyee: So. My whole attitude towards inflation on cheese, which, you know, I know we’re not supposed to be allowed that anyway, but goddamn avocado, I already was having trouble with that when I came back from Panama and saw avocado the size of my head for 25 cents. And I came back in and saw one size of my fucking thumb.

[01:13:48] Thea Monyee: The other day I cut a lemon from Trader Joe’s that had literally no juice. The bitch, how did it get squeezed? Just dry

[01:13:55] NeKisha Killings: as a bone. I’ve had that happen. I’ve had that happen.

[01:13:58] Thea Monyee: It looked like it had been pre [01:14:00] squeezed and glues back together or some shit. It was, I never seen no shit like that. It scared me. It scared me.

[01:14:05] Thea Monyee: Oh, really? So my, uh, response to the rising cost of just fucking living in this country is, Oh, really bitch?

[01:14:16] Crystal Tennille Irby: Really? I just also want to say gas prices in South Carolina are 3 and 27 cents. Now we were the first to secede from the union, but you know, life is about choices.

[01:14:32] NeKisha Killings: I just came up with this off the fly. I would just like to say to the elections, please y’all, please don’t make me say a really bitch. Don’t make me do it. Don’t make me do it. Y’all get out there. Do what you need to do so you do not see us up in here cutting up

[01:14:48] Thea Monyee: Why this whole episode has made my tummy hurt

[01:14:50] NeKisha Killings: we will be cutting up like we did in our very first episode Y’all know we were angry.

[01:14:54] NeKisha Killings: Oh god. Look at my shoulders

[01:14:55] Thea Monyee: I don’t even know if I have the energy to cut up. I’m down to my phone. I will say oh really [01:15:00]

[01:15:00] NeKisha Killings: bitch Oh, really? Yeah, that’s not all right because I have folks showing up asking me if i’m done yet Let me let me move this along follow us On Instagram at dim black mama’s podcast.

[01:15:13] NeKisha Killings: And if you don’t want to miss a minute of the magic, stay up to date with everything we’re conjuring up by signing up for our newsletter, the mothership, which drops in your box twice a month ish.

[01:15:25] Thea Monyee: And don’t forget to check out our website. www. themblackmamas. com. You can also send us your thoughts about the show.

[01:15:33] Thea Monyee: Show us some love and ask us some questions at magic at themblackmamas. com

[01:15:38] Crystal Tennille Irby: and be sure to listen to our sister

[01:15:44] Crystal Tennille Irby: All right, this is good. This is a juicy show. It was a great show and that’s all we got black people. We ain’t got snow mode. [01:16:00] Namaste.